this thread begins by discussing preaching but moves on to address the gifts as a whole putting both preaching and the rest of the gifts into a balanced perspective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\nDan Mayhew <summit@worldaccessnet.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn his introduction, Gordon Forrester wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n> We have been to a couple of\n> meetings\n> but are aware that it is just another form of an\n> IC, only meeting in a home. In other words, a\n> strong leader that\n> inputs his dreams and ideas whilst the rest sit\n> and listen.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI have noted an interesting phenomena as I talk to pastors in\ntransition, that is those \"leaders\" that have found themselves between\nchurches or in the place of seriously considering the paradigm within\nwhich they work. They are interested in the HC concept, and often are\neven convicted that the shift *must* be made in order to be faithful to\nthe New Testament, but they almost always ask about a \"celebration\ngathering\" or large group assembly. The translation of this question is,\n\"will I have a chance to preach?\" I don't fault them for this, since,\noften, these guys are gifted teachers, but it points out a difficulty\nthat many pastors have in trusting the Lord to use them in the\nchallenging change from one system to another. Personally, I enjoy\npublic speaking (preaching). It's something that I can do. I like the\nprocess of preparing thoughts and ideas that others can understand, but\nI had to let that go and trust the Lord that if that particular skill\nwas needed He would make a place for it. When I was doing it regularly,\nI remember feeling satisfied that I had done something I enjoyed\n(sometimes they even enjoyed it, too!:) ) , but having the uncomfortable\nfeeling that my listeners were largely unaffected in any tangible\nway----as though they were hypnotized by the whole operation. On the\nother hand, if God makes the place for such sharing, you can bet there\nwill be results. The humbling thing is that's even been true for\ndonkeys. I have periodic opportunities to speak publicly, and I still\nenjoy them, but these days, it seems that when these chances come the\nresults also come. That wasn't true before.<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\nAs I draw my reflections to a close, I guess I am seeing that pastors or\nother \"leader types\" that the Spirit is moving out of the system usually\nhave to grapple with that issue. We're tempted to think ill of them\nabout it, but I think it would be better to encourage them to trust the\nLord with whatever skill he may have invested them and take the risk. In\nother words, lay down your gifts and wait upon the Lord's instructions\nto take them up again.<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n--\n====\nDan Mayhew\nThe Summit Fellowships\nPortland, Oregon<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<Steffasong@aol.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn a message dated 97-08-03 12:21:24 EDT, summit@worldaccessnet.com (Dan\nMayhew) writes:<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n<< I don't fault them for this, since,\n often, these guys are gifted teachers, but it points out a difficulty\n that many pastors have in trusting the Lord to use them in the\n challenging change from one system to another. Personally, I enjoy\n public speaking (preaching). It's something that I can do. I like the\n process of preparing thoughts and ideas that others can understand, but\n I had to let that go and trust the Lord that if that particular skill\n was needed He would make a place for it. ><\/pre>\n\n\n\nWow Dan, now we are really getting to the heart of some important things\nhere. I am so glad that you pointed this out because I believe it is a\nstruggle that so many of we \"leader types,\" either face presently, or have\nfaced in the decision to leave the system. All I can really say is Amen to\nyour sharing, especially the following. You said:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<As I draw my reflections to a close, I guess I am seeing that pastors or\n other \"leader types\" that the Spirit is moving out of the system usually\n have to grapple with that issue. We're tempted to think ill of them\n about it, but I think it would be better to encourage them to trust the\n Lord with whatever skill he may have invested them and take the risk. In\n other words, lay down your gifts and wait upon the Lord's instructions\n to take them up again. >><\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\nPraise the Lord! I wish we could write this on a banner and fly it across\nthe sky! I do believe that part of the struggle of laying down the gifts\nincludes the magnitude of need there is to be done among the saints, as well\nas missing something that you really enjoy & something that uses the gift of\nGod within you.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nPersonally, I must confess this was part of my own struggle 2 and 3 years\nago. As we considered pursuing HC, I took stock of the situation and I\nremember feeling like part of me was going to die. I had to make the choice\nto do it. Looking back it seems like a rather insignificant choice in the\nscope of the beauty of churchlife, but back then it was a real issue. Being\na part of this beautiful little HC (and obeying the Lord by coming out of the\nIC!) has been worth the risk. It's true, I don't get to construct a message\nanymore or get to flow in some of the things I enjoyed regarding ministry in\nyears gone by... but that's God's business. Right now, the establishing of\nHis Body in our locale is the most important thing.<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\nThis is a healthy topic to bring up Dan, I'm glad you did. I think avoidance\nof the subject hinders personal growth. Some even will choose even to\ndisobey the tugging and conviction of the Holy Spirit in regard to coming out\nof the IC because they can not bear that it may mean laying down their gifts.\n Encouraging them is most necessary.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nPraise the Lord for His faithfulness!\nIn Him,\nSteph NJ<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nKen Matheson <kmat@spacestar.net><\/pre>\n\n\n\nDan Mayhew wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n>\n> As I draw my reflections to a close, I guess I am seeing that pastors or\n> other \"leader types\" that the Spirit is moving out of the system usually\n> have to grapple with that issue. We're tempted to think ill of them\n> about it, but I think it would be better to encourage them to trust the\n> Lord with whatever skill he may have invested them and take the risk. In\n> other words, lay down your gifts and wait upon the Lord's instructions\n> to take them up again.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI can relate to what you are saying Dan!<\/pre>\n\n\n\njust had a pastor friend stop in a couple of days ago to inquire what we\nwere up to. When he found out we were hcing his main objection was no\none was taking time to prepare a systematic message for the group. In\nfact he mentioned that there was no way the group would survive with out\nsomeone doing this.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWe had a little heated debate over it but overall it was good and He did\nadmit that many messages that are preached really only contain 5 minutes\nof real substenance anyway. He wasn't at all \"ready\" to move out of\nthat system so it made it difficult for him to receive what we were\ndoing without him getting defensive. It seems it is the hardest to\nshare this concept of church with pastors who are firmly entrenched as\nthey could take it as an attack on their ministry.\n<\/pre>\n\n\n\nSteph wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThis is a healthy topic to bring up Dan, I'm glad you did. I think\navoidance\nof the subject hinders personal growth. Some even will choose even to\ndisobey the tugging and conviction of the Holy Spirit in regard to\ncoming out\nof the IC because they can not bear that it may mean laying down their\ngifts.\n Encouraging them is most necessary.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI agree Steph!\n--\nKmat@spacestar.com\nEagan, MN\n612.891.4062 Fax 612.891.3183<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nPhil Weingart <pweingar@dazel.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nt 09:11 AM 8\/3\/97 -0700, Dan Mayhew wrote:\n>I have periodic opportunities to speak publicly, and I still\n>enjoy them, but these days, it seems that when these chances come the\n>results also come. That wasn't true before.<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\nDan, you don't know how I'm encouraged by these words. I noticed more than\na decade ago that most sermons make no difference at all, or very little.\nIt upset me, since I considered preaching part of my calling, and still do\n(even though I don't do much preaching).<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOne of the pastors in our IC, who has a passion for home churches (within\nthe IC model) challenged a group of us to name 5 sermons which had made a\ndifference in our lives. Few could name more than one. Then he challenged\nus to name 5 individuals who had made a difference in our lives, and of\ncourse everyone could. The lesson was clear.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWhat's interesting is that he continues to think sermons are important.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAs Ken Matheson wrote:\n>It seems it is the hardest to\n>share this concept of church with pastors who are firmly entrenched as\n>they could take it as an attack on their ministry.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nHow could they take it otherwise? They received a calling FROM GOD to the\nministry. They've invested their entire lives into making all things\nBiblical. If you are correct in identifying the IC structure as unbiblical,\none possible outcome is not only that they've invested their entire lives\nin a sham, but that they did not hear God in the first place, and they have\nnot been hearing Him all along. You're attacking their entire self-concept.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOf course, that's not what you or I believe. God does call people to\nshepherd His people in the IC, because that's where His people are.\nHowever, the pastor to whom you're talking has not thought this through,\nand in order to get there, he has to pass through the \"what if it was all a\nsham?\" stage. That's terrifying for anyone; most people face this sort of\nthing only once in a lifetime, if at all.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nObject lesson: if you approach your pastor with HC theology, do it\ngradually, gently. (Chris Kirk has some experience with this, don't you,\nChris?)<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<jtincopa@amrice.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nHi its Jose,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nYou know the guy who's always starting trouble! ; )<\/pre>\n\n\n\nNo really, Just want to comment on the preaching topic going on. I agree\nwith much of what is being said but would like to add a comment.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWhen someone is called to preach it is because the Word of God is so much\nin him that he MUST preach. Jesus was this way, As was Paul. I don't want\nto get into all the scriptures because I didn't write to prove my\n\"theological\" point. However I will say that Paul spent much time\npreaching and teaching. At Antioch 1 year with Barnabus, At Corinth 18\nmonths teaching the Word of God among them, At Ephesus 3 + years with Hall\n(School of Tyrannus) etc.. He saw teaching and preaching as an important\npart of equipping God's people and discipling the flock. Now I know that\nmany people get proud because of preaching etc.. But let us never remember\nthe IMPORTANCE of Good preaching and teaching in the overall plan of God\nfor his saints.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThanks\nJose<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nTim DeGrado <trd@petsparc.mc.duke.edu><\/pre>\n\n\n\nJose,<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n>\n> When someone is called to preach it is because the Word of God is so much\n> in him that he MUST preach. Jesus was this way, As was Paul. I don't want\n> to get into all the scriptures because I didn't write to prove my\n> \"theological\" point. However I will say that Paul spent much time\n> preaching and teaching. At Antioch 1 year with Barnabus, At Corinth 18\n> months teaching the Word of God among them, At Ephesus 3 + years with Hall\n> (School of Tyrannus) etc.. He saw teaching and preaching as an important\n> part of equipping God's people and discipling the flock. Now I know that\n><\/pre>\n\n\n\nI did a biblical study on \"preaching\" and concluded that this verb\nmeant \"proclaim\" and was only used to describe when the gospel was being\nproclaimed to unbelievers, not teaching believers. The venue is\nalways a public place. If I remember right.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n-Tim<\/pre>\n\n\n\n==========================================================================\nTimothy R. DeGrado, Ph.D.\nDuke PET Facility\/Radiology Dept Tel: (919) 684-7727\nDuke University Medical Center FAX: (919) 684-7130\nBox 3949, Durham, NC 27710 E-mail: trd@petsparc.mc.duke.edu<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nDear HCDL,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOne reason threads like these are therapeutic is that it is so easy for us\nto confuse preaching with a particular genre of monologue.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nPreaching is absolutely crucial to Christianity, but as Tim D. and others\nhave pointed out, this preaching has little to do with what we commonly\ncall \"preaching\" (that certain kind of religious monologue).<\/pre>\n\n\n\n*** Preaching and the gospel ***\nThe core of preaching is tied up with what the gospel is. The gospel is\nnot a philosophy, one that you could come up with if you sat and thought\nabout it long enough. Nor is it a science that you could understand if you\nobserved nature closely enough. The gospel is a story.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nYou can't think it up or look harder and discover it. The _only_ way to\ncome to know the gospel is if someone tells you the story. That's\npreaching. Christianity grows because, in ten thousand different ways,\npeople keep telling others the story. We preach when we tell the story in\nour lives and works and when we explain to our friends and neighbors\nthat our lives don't make any sense apart from the story.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThis is the sense in which, \"faith comes by hearing.\" Faith cannot come\nby thinking about it or by looking harder. It can only come by hearing the\nstory. There's no other way into Christianity except someone telling you\nthe story. That's the preaching that we absolutely must have. And it has\nlittle to do with sermonics or three-point bible studies or any of the rest of\nthe bric-a-brac we often call preaching.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n*** And the monologues? ***\nSometimes those monologues tell the story; but more often they don't.\nAnd, as Dan M. pointed out so well at the beginning of this discussion --\nin his incomparably delicate and gracious fashion -- concern with the\nmonologue is many times really veiled concern with one's own gift. His\ncounsel (and Stephanie's and Phil's and . . .) to lay down the gift and\ntrust the giver is the right one.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAnd isn't laying down the gift and trusting the giver the essence of the\nstory anyway? Maybe foregoing a few monologues and relying on the\none who raised Jesus from the dead would be preaching louder and\ntruer than any of us are really prepared for.\n<\/pre>\n\n\n\nRegards,\nHal<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n\"Gordon Forrester\" <gordonf@ilink.nis.za><\/pre>\n\n\n\nYeah!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI laid that one down too. Now that I'm out of the whole meeting\nthing, I don't preach at all. My articles are really only geared to\nencouraging the Body of Christ to enjoy their fellowship with Him. No\nstrong doctrinal issues. Just encouragement.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nRegards<\/pre>\n\n\n\nGordon Forrester\ngordonf@ilink.nis.za\nCape Town South Africa<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nTracey Amino <bcc@netport.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nHi all.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI don't think any of us is saying that there isn't a valid\ntime and place for preaching. I think, in my opinion, that\npreaching has been substituted in many cases for what should\nnormally be one-on-one discussion. In my own life, for instance,\nI went to the same IC for 4 years. I heard the pastor preach\nevery Sunday and Tuesday for those 4 years. So, in all, I\nheard him speak from the pulpit probably 400+ times. During\nthis time, an illusion of a relationship is formed in my mind\nbecause I know a lot about his life. I know where he went to\nschool. I know his entire family. I know cute stories about\nhis family life. I know struggles he has gone through, etc.\nBut, in reality, we are strangers. He doesn't even know my\nson's name. He doesn't know anything about my family. It is\none-way communication. It is a mirage...<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI agree that there is a place for preaching. But, like Eve\nso eloquently stated a few weeks ago, I think the pulpit can\nbecome a \"hiding place\" for people who want to maintain control,\nand who don't want intimacy. Thus, perpetuating the illusion\nof a relationship with no substance.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI enjoyed Phil's last post on the subject of preaching, and I\nattempted to recall 5 messages out of the thousands I have heard\nover the years. I could only really recall 3 with any amount\nof clarity. Of the three, two were animated sermons utilizing\nprops. I guess that's a real reality check, huh?<\/pre>\n\n\n\nMaybe we have put the gifts and callings of God into a box of\nour own interpretation. If we are unwilling to accept the IC's\ninterpretation of what \"church\" is, why should we be willing\nto accept their interpretation of how the gifts and callings of\nGod are administrated within the church?<\/pre>\n\n\n\nJust my opinion....<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn Christ,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nTracey Amino\nLancaster, CA<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<FViola3891@aol.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nJose's recent post, I think, sheds light on the fact that there are two sides\nto this issue and people generally fall hard to the one or the other.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn meeting with various and sundry NT fellowships here and abroad since the\n1980's, I personally don't feel that there is anything against NT order or\nspiritual principle to have Bible exposition, teaching, exhortation,\nScriptural instruction, et al. in a church meeting. In fact, I believe it is\nquite Scriptural, just as prophetic utterances are (a la 1 Cor. 14).<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThe essential thing is that the meeting be open for all to minister in their\ngifts, that those who minister the Word are in fact being led by the Spirit,\nthat those who would bring a word from the Scriptures do not dominate or\nmonopolize the meeting, and that any teaching or exposition of Scripture that\ndoes occur be open for comment, question, and dialogue.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nRegarding the tangible 'effects' of the ministry of the Word, a lot of that\nhas to do with whether or not the Spirit is in it and if there is a living,\ncommunity by which to flesh out and apply what the Lord brings forth.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOver here in Florida, we have a weekly ministry meeting that centers around\nworship, the ministry of the Word, and fellowship. This summer, it has been\ndrawing from 40-60 people... mostly college aged students that are hungry for\nChrist. We've seen the ministry of the Word produce fabulous results in\ntheir lives and they have been thriving on it. The Word is taking on flesh\nin their lives and it puts us all in awe.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn a word, while the NT knows nothing of a clergy-dominated,\npulpiteer-driven, sermon-centered 'church service', teachers, prophets, and\nexhorters do exist in the 'ekklesia' and they should be encouraged to carry\nout their Spirit-endowed functions without supplanting the function of other\nministries.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nRegards,\nFrank V.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<jtincopa@amrice.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nI appreciate Frank's Wisdom and Insight. I couldn't help but repost it!\nVery balanced view indeed!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFrank may God bless you in the work he's called you to do. Sounds like God\nis really moving in your midst. May his spirit continue to do so in your\nlife and in those you minister to. Sounds like God has given you a gift of\nteaching, may it ever increase!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nLove in Christ,\nJose<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<Steffasong@aol.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn a message dated 97-08-04 12:15:47 EDT, jtincopa@amrice.com writes:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<< But let us never remember\n the IMPORTANCE of Good preaching and teaching in the overall plan of God\n for his saints.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThanks\n Jose >>\n<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\nHi Jose and all,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nPraise the Lord for the work of the ministry... you're right, the church of\nJesus Christ needs it! I think the problem resides in the mixing up and\ncombining of the \"church\" and the \"ministry of teaching and preaching.\"<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThese two aspects of the Body of Christ need each other, but the church needs\nto function as a church... that is, brothers and sisters each bringing a\npsalm, a hymn, a spiritual song. When the \"worker\" or \"minister\" comes to\npreach and teach and raise up the church, great-- but then he must leave to\nso that the entire church can function in the various gifts of God.\n Non-believers and babes in Christ need the work of the ministry even more\noften probably, but if they keep getting preached at and taught every week\nthey NEVER learn to lean on their Lord.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThe one who preaches and teaches comes to lay a strong foundation of Christ\nand then returns to build up and exhort the church, just as Paul did. The\nchurch should receive that one as from the Lord, and count it a blessing. The\ncall of God to preach and teach beats heavy within his heart, and that's a\nvery good thing because the church needs him, but he must not stay. When he\nstays in the local church and begins to function ALL THE TIME as the\npreacher\/teacher the church ceases to be a church... it becomes a ministry.\n That's where all this talk of \"vision,\" comes in and politics in the church,\nand other foul things that God never intended.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI will go even farther and state that when the worker (or apostle) stays and\npreaches all the time the believers are taught yes, but they are taught to\ndeath, not to life! Yes, Paul did preach and teach brother, but he was\nitinerant...he travelled near and far to raise up the church. He never\nstayed as their local \"pastor.\" The present worldwide Body of our Lord Jesus\nChrist suffers, I believe, from a glut of ministry and a want of true\nchurchlife.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nJust my 2 cents.\nBlessings,\nSteph from NJ<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nMichelle Beers <m_n_mbeers@earthlink.net><\/pre>\n\n\n\nHi All,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI am really enjoying this most recent discussion on preaching. It has been\na pleasure to hear an open and honest sharing of the difficulties many have\nfaced in their gifting.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI find myself feeling even more empathy for people in this position. I have\nalways understood in my mind how it would be a difficult place to be in\nbut, I have not previously been able to personally relate to them on too\nmany things. If while converting to HC some people feel that they must lay\ndown their gift until the Lord leads them to pick it up here and there. I\ncan relate to that. I guess what I'm also hearing is that although it may\nbecome more sporadic than before, it is more fruitful. I can surely relate\nto that, too.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nEven though I am not a teacher or pastor, the reason that I can relate so\nwell here is because many times I have felt the need to put aside my gift\ndue to the structure of church meetings, among other reasons. My gifting\nseems terribly unwelcome many places and it does not usually receive a lot\nof attention or glory, either. In fact many times that I have used it, I\nhave ended up being far more often reviled than revered. It has forced me\nto be careful to follow the Lord's leading before openly using it though,\nand I think that has been a good lesson for me.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nHowever, the one thing that I am having difficulty relating to is the joy\nof using my gift when no one has been helped by it. Joy in God using me to\ndo something I can really understand. I live to be used of God. It is more\nimportant to me than anything else. The times that the Lord has seen fit to\nuse me with fruitful results have been the happiest days of my life, but\nthe times when my gift has been rejected or even worse when no one was\nedified, have been the worst days of my life, too.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nMy heart ends up filled with grief and I am tormented. Part of it is myself\nfeeling useless or sometimes I even feel personally rejected, but by far\nthe *most* difficult part is a feeling that someone will not profit by it\nand could even end up harmed.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nActually for me, it has become even harder lately to feel the joy of being\nused by God at all, since my health has challenged me both physically and\nmentally, (I have cognitive difficulties whenever I am exposed to things\nthat I am sensitive to for a long time.) My ordeal has been sooo hard that\nfor a time I was even challenged spiritually as well, but found that God\nwas faithful and continued to breathe on me until there was a flame of\nfaith again in my heart.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThroughout this whole trial I have often felt the need for help from the\nfamily of believers and rather than receiving what I have needed, I have\nfound people more than willing to teach or to preach at me instead. I\nsincerely wish that I could say that it helped me because I wouldn't have\nhad to go through as much pain if it had. Please understand that I have\nnothing against preaching or teaching, but they are no substitute at times\nwhen a different gift is needed. I'm sad to say that I have several vivid\nreminders of how it feels to be on the other end of the preaching and\nteaching gift inappropriately.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFor example, I have long hair and since Mark didn't really know how to take\ncare of it for me, it became mostly a large rat's nest pulled back in a\npony tail. He used to take me to church in a wheelchair and I would lay\ndown on the back pew with my pillow. Here I received plenty of preaching\nand plenty of teaching. Nevertheless, I still felt like I was in hell.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI remember an elder came by our house once to get Mark's help with a\ncomputer problem that they were having. He came in and announced that his\nwife was in the car but would not come in because she was not wearing her\nmake up, but we were encouraged to come to church. (sigh) I hadn't been\nable to wear make up since I don't know when, probably years. I could've\ncared less how she looked. It had to be better than hair that looked like a\nrat's nest. How I wish that she had come in and sat with me for awhile. How\nI wish that she had looked around and saw the work that needed to be done.\n(I am allergic to dust and Mark couldreally only get to vacuuming once\nevery few months.) How I longed for someone to simply care more about \"me\"\nthan about my attendance at their speeches.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI felt like I was at a place which required other gifts but people had not\nbeen encouraged to develop them and I deeply felt the utter lack of certain\nmembers of the body. I must confess that I am also having difficulty with\nthe idea that these people were enjoying themselves, while I was dying on\nthe vine.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOn another note, since this thread has been helpful in expanding my view so\nfar, I do have a question that I would like to ask. I am wondering if\nperhaps the Lord uses teachers and preachers in different ways at various\ntimes. Do any of you feel that God has still used you for teaching and\npreaching but differently than before? Like maybe when there is only an\naudience of one?<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFor me personally, there have been times that I have had people say\nsomething to me privately right when I needed to hear it and I greatly\nappreciated it. Other times I have learned by someone's good example and\nbecome inspired by it. Once in awhile, it has even felt like the time when\nI was a small child and my Dad saw me struggling with my food, chasing it\naround my plate, trying to scoop it up with my fork, without using my\nhands. I remember my Father grabbed my fork and said , \"Here try this.\", as\nhe stabbed the piece of food and lifted it easily off of the plate. I was\nin absolute awe, and at that moment , I thought that my Father was the most\nbrilliant man in the world. =======:)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAfter all that I have been through, I have learned that indeed we do need\n\"all\" of the gifts and we do need to use our gifts, but more importantly we\nall need to have time left to love each other. What blesses me the most\nabout this thread is that although some of us have been on opposite sides\nof the coin, we all have seemed to have learned similar lessons from it .\nIn fact, right now, I find myself in awe of how \"brilliant\" my Father in\nheaven really is.<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<Steffasong@aol.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn a message dated 97-08-04 22:14:37 EDT, m_n_mbeers@earthlink.net (Michelle\nBeers) writes:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<< Throughout this whole trial I have often felt the need for help from the\nfamily of believers and rather than receiving what I have needed, I have\nfound people more than willing to teach or to preach at me instead. I\nsincerely wish that I could say that it helped me because I wouldn't have had\nto go through as much pain if it had. Please understand that I have nothing\nagainst preaching or teaching, but they are no substitute at times when a\ndifferent gift is needed. >><\/pre>\n\n\n\nThankyou dear sister for your open, honest expression of what the Lord has\nbeen doing in your life. You are so right. Sometimes the simple gift of\nhelps is so much greater than anything else. I grieve when I hear what you\nhave shared, because I know the need is great and so long to see the Body of\nChrist actually be the Body....of CHRIST! Again I will say, the Body of\nChrist suffers from a glut of \"ministry\" and a want of true bodylife! Body\nlife is where those needs get met and those gifts truly flow!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nMy own conclusions (overall) about \"gifts,\" are that there is truly only ONE\ngift. His name is Jesus Christ. He is THE GIFT to the world, and THE GIFT\nto me, and THE ONLY GIFT I want flowing through me.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI pray to our dear Lord that what I have just shared does not come across\noverly simplistic or too elementary. Also, I am not saying that the outward\nexpressions (what we call 'our gifts') of THE GIFT don't have any merit or\nplace, for surely they do. It's just that I have come to the conclusion that\nwhat we call \"gifts\" are really only that--- outward expressions of the one\ntrue gift....Jesus Christ our Lord! They are spokes extending from the hub\nof the wheel. He is the center... the gifts flow out from Him, causing the\nwheel to turn and the bicycle to move.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nTherefore, one can flow in the teaching gift for a season or a moment or a\nmeeting and then flow in an evangelistic gift and leave the teaching to\nanother the very next day. Praise the Lord that the outflow of the GIFT (ie,\nthe Lord) are expressions of His life within the church and not static or\npositions.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nBless you Michelle... thank you for adding such insight to this thread, and\nkeep on clinging to the GIFT. :-)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nLove, in our Beloved One,\nSteph NJ<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nPhil Weingart <pweingar@dazel.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nAt 09:09 AM 8\/5\/97 -0400, Steffasong@aol.com wrote:\n>My own conclusions (overall) about \"gifts,\" are that there is truly only ONE\n>gift. His name is Jesus Christ. He is THE GIFT to the world, and THE GIFT\n>to me, and THE ONLY GIFT I want flowing through me.\n>\n>... It's just that I have come to the conclusion that\n>what we call \"gifts\" are really only that--- outward expressions of the one\n>true gift....Jesus Christ our Lord! They are spokes extending from the hub\n>of the wheel. He is the center... the gifts flow out from Him, causing the\n>wheel to turn and the bicycle to move.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAmen.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nDoing research for a little inquisition I endured a couple of years ago, I\ndiscovered that the greek for \"grace\" (Charis) is the same root as the\ngreek for \"gift\" (Charisma, a little charis). It changed my outlook. I\ndiscovered Paul's notion (and Peter's, and the Lord's) that all the various\ngifts we're given are simply little extensions of the great gift, our\nredemption in Christ. We each manifest a little piece of Christ for the\ncommon good. The passage which expresses this, in my mind, is Paul's\nquestion in Romans 8:<\/pre>\n\n\n\nHe who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all, how will He\nnot\n also along with Him give us ALL THINGS?<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAnd so, in Christ, we receive all things as extensions of Himself.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI've been learning this year to include even the air we breathe and the\ngrass we tread in this assessment. We're surrounded by the love and grace\nof God. We eat it and drink it; it keeps the cold off our skins and the\nrain off our heads. Nothing from which we benefit comes from anywhere but\nthe overwhelming love of the Father Who created us, and who continues to\nlove and nurture and care for us. We live in a fog, thinking we're cut off\nfrom God, and meanwhile He's got His hand under every step we take, and\ngladly provides each breath for us.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nSome day this puny 3-dimensional shell will fall off our world, and we'll\nsee things as they really are: and we'll discover that we've been in heaven\nall along, sitting in the Father's lap. We'll cry because of all the\nopportunities for loving fellowship we missed, when we thought we were\nalone but were in fact less than a breath away from Him who is our life.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nDoggone, now I've preached. Hope that was an exercise of a gift...<\/pre>\n\n\n\nCheers.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n\"David A. Imel\" <imel@jpl.nasa.gov><\/pre>\n\n\n\nHi All,<\/pre>\n\n\n\ni too have been enjoying very much this thread, and\nMichelle Beers' question has forced me to break\nmy long lurking-silence to share my experience:<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAt first i couldn't think of any sermon, let alone five,\nthat had significantly impacted me. (Positively or negatively!)\nBut easily many more individuals who had. Then i remembered\none fellow, Keith, a visiting student at Fuller here in Pasadena,\nwith whom i met in a small men's group for awhile until it\ndisbanded. We then continued meeting together weekly to\nencourage each other. He was a pastor back in Ireland, and\ndefinitely had the gift of preaching. When we met at Starbucks,\ni would often ask him a question. Five minutes later, while intently\nlistening to his reply, it would dawn on me \"i'm getting a\nlittle sermon here.\" But while with most people i would\nhave considered this very negative, with him it was incredibly\npositive. He knew me well, and i him, and i needed the\nexhortation his \"sermons\" gave. i hung on every word as he\npreached life to me---not just with his words, but with his\nwhole spirit. In fact, God used Keith to bring me back to\na relationship with Him after a very long and dry period\nin my life. i like to think of Keith as a virus who infected\nme with the Holy Spirit.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n-- david.<\/pre>\n\n\n\ndavid a. imel <imel@jpl.nasa.gov>\nJPL 300-319, Pasadena, CA 91109\n(818) 354-1539 (office), 393-5184 (FAX)\n\"This moment contains all moments.\"\n -- C.S. Lewis *The Great Divorce*<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nJames W. Ney <jimney@primenet.com><\/pre>\n\n\n\nIt is\n>one-way communication. It is a mirage...\n>\n>\n>Tracey Amino\n>Lancaster, CA\n>\nGood point. It is the case of one face in the pulpit to thousands of\nfaceless people in\nthe pews. Growth mainly occurs in two way communication.\n\n<\/pre>\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n--------<\/pre>\n\n\n\nJim Ney 13375 N. 96th Place\nScottsdale AZ 85260<\/pre>\n\n\n\njimney@primenet.com<\/pre>\n\n\n\nVisit my website on being a church dropout at:\nhttp:\/\/www.nakedpc.com\/dropout<\/pre>\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n--------8<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nTim DeGrado <trd@petsparc.mc.duke.edu>\nOn Tue, 5 Aug 1997, David A. Imel wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n> encourage each other. He was a pastor back in Ireland, and\n> definitely had the gift of preaching. When we met at Starbucks,\n> i would often ask him a question. Five minutes later, while intently\n> listening to his reply, it would dawn on me \"i'm getting a\n> little sermon here.\" But while with most people i would\n> have considered this very negative, with him it was incredibly\n> positive. He knew me well, and i him, and i needed the\n> exhortation his \"sermons\" gave. i hung on every word as he\n> preached life to me---not just with his words, but with his\n> whole spirit. In fact, God used Keith to bring me back to\n> a relationship with Him after a very long and dry period\n> in my life. i like to think of Keith as a virus who infected\n> me with the Holy Spirit.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAs you say, the attitude of the \"preacher\" makes a big difference.\nI still don't like to use the word \"preach\" to describe communication\nbetween two or more believers. The NT uses other words like\nexhort, encourage, teach, etc. I think language can be important\nin cases like this where there are strong cultural norms coming\nfrom the IC that are (or should be) questioned. It is not helpful,\nin my opinion, to try to reinterpret the meaning of \"preach\" to make\nit somehow fit into how we relate to one another.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI would encourage you to do a biblical study on the role\nof preaching in the NT. It was quite eye-opening for me.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n-Tim<\/pre>\n\n\n\n==========================================================================\nTimothy R. DeGrado, Ph.D.\nDuke PET Facility\/Radiology Dept Tel: (919) 684-7727\nDuke University Medical Center FAX: (919) 684-7130\nBox 3949, Durham, NC 27710 E-mail: trd@petsparc.mc.duke.edu<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nSteffasong@aol.com\nIn a message dated 97-08-05 11:01:16 EDT, pweingar@dazel.com (Phil Weingart)\nwrites:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<< and we'll\n see things as they really are: and we'll discover that we've been in heaven\n all along, sitting in the Father's lap. ><\/pre>\n\n\n\nJust about now I feel like joining the angels around the throne and singing\nwith one voice...\"Hallelujah to the Lamb!\" In fact, .... I think I will!\n :-)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nDitto, Phil. We are just not of this world. We are of another realm, our\nlives hid away in our Beloved. IMHO as we learn to see through His eyes, we\ngrow in the grace that is ours through Jesus our Lord!<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<We'll cry because of all the\n opportunities for loving fellowship we missed, when we thought we were\n alone but were in fact less than a breath away from Him who is our life.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nDoggone, now I've preached. Hope that was an exercise of a gift...\n >><\/pre>\n\n\n\nPreach it brother! When the gift fits.... wear it! :-)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nYour sister in the sojourn,\nSteffa NJ<\/pre>\n\n\n\n(p.s. remind me to share the \"Mystery\" song with you on Saturday. It starts\nout, \"nearer than a breath, closer than the breeze.....)<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nBrian K. Berger brian_berger@juno.com\nOn Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Tim DeGrado\n<trd@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> writes:\n>snip<\n It is not helpful,\n>in my opinion, to try to reinterpret the meaning of \"preach\" to make\n>it somehow fit into how we relate to one another.\n>\n>I would encourage you to do a biblical study on the role\n>of preaching in the NT. It was quite eye-opening for me.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nI reply-\nI am grateful for this subject being posted. It is another aspect that I\ndid not consider when we looked at the concept of HC instead of what we\nhave now. I will add what my Pastor has said for a long time. I would\nrather never again to preach if I am able instead to MINISTER to people.\nWhen I took ahold of that then it changed the whole way I looked at my\npulpit ministry. This subject again outlines again we are to serve first\nthen to be served.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nBrian Berger\nManchester, NH\nBrian_Berger@juno.com<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\n\"Joann M. Hnat\" jmh@shore.net\nPhil Weingart wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n> One of the pastors in our IC, who has a passion for home churches (within\n> the IC model) challenged a group of us to name 5 sermons which had made a\n> difference in our lives. Few could name more than one. Then he challenged\n> us to name 5 individuals who had made a difference in our lives, and of\n> course everyone could. The lesson was clear.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nSo, I thought about this. And I *can* name 5 sermons that have made a\ndifference in my life. Frank Jernigan's \"feet of clay\" sermon. The\nsermon that Dianne Miller and Deb Lobsitz gave about the nature of\nintimacy with God and with other human beings. Hal Miller's sermon on\nthe spirituality of everyday life. Kay Eaves' sermon about fire in the\nbelly, and passion for God. Julia Banks' sermon likening God's work in\nour lives to that of a gardener (which has spawned a whole set of\n\"parables from the garden\" for some of us at SCC).<\/pre>\n\n\n\nSo, then I thought about what Tracey Amino wrote:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n> I agree that there is a place for preaching. But, like Eve\n> so eloquently stated a few weeks ago, I think the pulpit can\n> become a \"hiding place\" for people who want to maintain control,\n> and who don't want intimacy. Thus, perpetuating the illusion\n> of a relationship with no substance.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAnd I realized that, in each of the cases I cited, at the time of the\nsermon, I had an ongoing relationship with the people doing the\nteaching. Because I entirely agree with Tracey and Eve -- the pulpit,\nlike no other place in Christendom, can become a hiding place for people\nwho don't want or are afraid of real relationships.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nOf course, I'm certainly not saying that there is no place whatsoever\nfor us to hear from brothers and sisters with whom we don't have a\npersonal relationship, although it seems to me that this should probably\nbe the exception, rather than the rule, and that we would want to know\nsomething of that person's background and the people to whom he or she\nis mutually accountable. (I remember that at a HC conference years ago,\nI met a man who introduced himself to me and, when I asked him about his\nhome church, said, \"Well, I'm a little different from the rest of you.\nI'm not really a member of a house church; I'm a house church planter.\"\nHe clearly meant this to lend his words greater authority than they\npossessed in and of themselves. It didn't.)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIt also seems to me that those who feel they have a gift of preaching\nwould do well to look at the less-spectacular gifts God has given them,\ntoo, and to seek to use those gifts as thoroughly as they seek to use\ntheir gift of preaching. One of the reasons I am so willing to hear\nfrom Dianne or Hal or Julia or Deb is because they are not speaking into\nmy life in a vacuum. I watch them clear the dishes at fellowship\ngatherings -- even during the times when discussions are going on and\nthey could be airing their opinions! They welcome guests into their\nhomes and make dinners for sick people and families with new babies.\nThey show up when it's time for someone to move. And, because they are\nwilling to do these less-glamourous things, they have a certain\ncredibility with me which they wouldn't have otherwise.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWhat I just wrote reminds me of something that happened years ago in my\nhome church. One of the women was working at some Christian\norganization, and she helped to put on some big conference of pastors,\nall of whom happened to be male. I remember that she said that she\nfound many of them to be quite arrogant, though without meaning to be.\nThey all talked about their ministries, and how their churches were\ngrowing, and what sorts of sermons they preached. And they all talked\nabout how their wives had the \"gift of hospitality.\" I remember that we\nall laughed about this at the time, at the fact that none of these men's\nwives apparently had any gifts which would threaten the men in any way.\nBut then we talked about how we'd all be much more likely to learn from\nsomeone who consistently used her gift of hospitality than from someone\nwho was terribly eager to preach to us.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAnd, so, that's all I have to say about that. Thanks to Dan Mayhew for\nstarting an excellent thread, and have fun with your son in the\nmountains.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n.. Joann Hnat\n Salem, Massachusetts, USA<\/pre>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nFViola3891@aol.com\n<< His counsel (and Stephanie's and Phil's and . . .) to lay down the gift\nand\n trust the giver is the right one. >><\/pre>\n\n\n\nThis reminds me of a personal testimony given by Watchman Nee. As a young,\nbright evangelist in China (in his 20's), Nee had a zeal to preach and\nexpound the Scriptures. Yet, God struck Him with His light one day and Nee\nsaw that he was operating in his own natural zeal and natural energy.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAfter that profound revelation, Nee stopped preaching and teaching for 8\nmonths! Yet, after that period, the Lord released Nee to work for Him once\nagain. But the gift he had once possessed, although still there, had changed.\n It was no longer Nee preaching for Christ; it was Christ preaching through\nNee. Nee had learned the all-too often neglected lesson of taking our gifts\nthrough the process of death and resurrection. (How easy it is to give the\nboot to our Ishamael's, but when God asks us to lay down the promised child\non the alter... the one that came from His own hands....how terribly\ndifficult it is for us to let it go.)<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThe tangible fruit of Nee's death\/resurrection experience regarding his gift\ncan be touched in his classic books,*The Normal Christian Life, *Sit, Walk,\nStand*, *What Shall This Man Do?*, *Love Not the World*, and *Changed Into\nHis Likeness*.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAll of these books are transcripts from Nee's teaching ministry in Europe,\n*after* he laid down his gift and God gave it back to him in resurrection.\n And because those talks were in fact energized by resurrection life, they\nhave profoundly changed the lives of thousands of Christians over the years.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFrank V.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nSteffasong@aol.com\nIn a message dated 97-08-07 06:57:10 EDT, FViola3891@aol.com writes:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<<\n It was no longer Nee preaching for Christ; it was Christ preaching through\n Nee. >><\/pre>\n\n\n\nGLORY TO THE LIVING GOD! Hi Frank, and all, --\nThis post just rang through my spirit like a song of praise! The lesson\nyou're describing below Frank, is IMHO, one of the absolute toughest for\nbelievers, especially the Isaac\/Ishmael correlation. It is a breaking that is\nindescribable.<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<Nee had learned the all-too often neglected lesson of taking our gifts\n through the process of death and resurrection. (How easy it is to give the\n boot to our Ishamael's, but when God asks us to lay down the promised child\n on the alter... the one that came from His own hands....how terribly\n difficult it is for us to let it go.) . . . .The tangible fruit of Nee's\ndeath\/resurrection experience regarding his gift can be touched in his\nclassic books,*The Normal Christian Life, *Sit, Walk, Stand*, *What Shall\nThis Man Do?*, *Love Not the World*, and *Changed Into His Likeness.\" >><\/pre>\n\n\n\nAs a brand new believer in 1974 and 75 I was blest to be able to read these\nbooks as well as the most memorable one to me which is \"The Release of the\nSpirit.\" I recall reading about the breaking of the outer man and thinking\nthat was happening as I gave up so many of my \"Ishmaels,\" but later... Oh,\nlater... years later. . . when God urged me to lay down even the Issacs that\nHe had painstakingly birthed through my slow-learning being... well, --that\nwas unbelievable. Then, when the move came out of the ministry forum of the\nIC into the HC, it was yet another breaking. This is why I don't believe the\nprocess is over yet, rather it the way we are transformed, and how we grow\nfrom \"faith to faith, and glory to glory.\"<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFrank, thank you for sharing this. It strikes a chord within me that is\nmostly unspeakable. I so appreciate hearing another speak about it, and value\nas well the opportunity to utter a few (hopefully) intelligible syllables in\nthis regard myself.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn Him we live and move and have our being!\nSteph, NJ<\/pre>\n\n\n\n********<\/strong><\/pre>\n\n\n\nDLBeaty@aol.com\nHello guys,<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIf it is okay, I would like to pick up on this thread which I have been\nfollowing, but have not had the time to post lately.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nHal made some very eloquent points about preaching:<\/pre>\n\n\n\n<<\nAnd, as Dan M. pointed out so well at the beginning of this discussion --\nin his incomparably delicate and gracious fashion -- concern with the\nmonologue is many times really veiled concern with one's own gift. His\ncounsel (and Stephanie's and Phil's and . . .) to lay down the gift and\ntrust the giver is the right one.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAnd isn't laying down the gift and trusting the giver the essence of the\nstory anyway? Maybe foregoing a few monologues and relying on the\none who raised Jesus from the dead would be preaching louder and\ntruer than any of us are really prepared for.>>\n<\/pre>\n\n\n\nFor nearly 20 years people have been telling me that I was a \"preacher\" or\nthey recognized signs in my life that indicated a calling of such. In all\nhonesty I too have become preoccupied at times with \"my ministry.\" I hope\nthat I am over that now, but I am probably not a fair judge of my own\ncondition.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThe interesting thing here is, that since I have laid down this concept of\ndelivering sermons to congregations of people, the fire and the passion for\nthe Word of the Lord has greatly increased in me!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nAs Hal and others have stated, the NT meaning of preaching is to make an\nannouncement, or tell the Gospel story. This happens in many wonderful ways.\nLord use me to tell others your story in all of its beauty -- every day of my\nlife!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nIn many circles, however, the idea of preaching comes from another NT\nconcept. This is not necessarily the telling of the Gospel story to\nunbeleivers, but the telling of the Word or counsels of God to the church.\nThis is actually known in the NT terminology as prophesying, that is speaking\nunto edification, exhortation and comfort, by the inspiration of the Holy\nSpirit (1 Cor 14:3). It can be a either a dialog or a monologue.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nActs 13:1 reads: \"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain\nprophets and teachers;\"<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWhat do you suppose these prophets and teachers were doing there? They were\nprobably prophesying and teaching!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThe point that I hope to make is that EVERY GIFT in the body of Christ\nshould be functioning. In the past, the overfunctioning of the preachers and\nteachers has often quenched the working of the Spirit of the Lord in the\nrest.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nThis can also happen the other way around. But what does the church need?\nWhen every member functions, the whole body is built up. When any one member\nis suppressed, certain needs go unmet.<\/pre>\n\n\n\nNow I am not talking about the need in one person to be the center of\nattention, or to dominate others. This is about the release of LIFE that is\nresident in each member of the body, for the edification of the whole body\n--including the gifts of prophesying and teaching!<\/pre>\n\n\n\nWhether or not the brothers and sisters with whom we meet have found a\nbalance, I cannot be sure. But there seems to be evidence of the Life of God\nin our midst, and the FREEDOM to express Him, as His Spirit leads! To us that\nmeans a lot of conversational sharing and dialog, but it also means that if\none in our midst has a message from the Lord that is burning in his or her\nheart to give -- we will receive that too!<\/pre>\n\n\n\n